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- <text id=90TT0343>
- <link 90TT1698>
- <link 89TT3365>
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- <title>
- Feb. 05, 1990: Interview:Larry Kramer
- </title>
- <history>
- TIME--The Weekly Newsmagazine--1990
- Feb. 05, 1990 Mandela:Free At Last?
- </history>
- <article>
- <source>Time Magazine</source>
- <hdr>
- INTERVIEW, Page 7
- Using Rage to Fight the Plague
- </hdr>
- <body>
- <p>AIDS activist, and now victim Larry Kramer blasts away at the
- Government, the medical establishment and the Catholic Church
- </p>
- <p>By Janice C. Simpson and Larry Kramer
- </p>
- <p> Q. Why have AIDS activists decided to target the Catholic
- Church?
- </p>
- <p> A. The church is perceived as being behind the times not
- only on abortion but also on sex education and gay rights. Even
- though it's representing something that is thousands of years
- old, every once in a while, you've got to give the machine a
- lube job.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But wasn't it going too far when a protester destroyed
- a consecrated wafer during a demonstration in New York City's
- St. Patrick's Cathedral?
- </p>
- <p> A. We're not here to make friends, we're here to raise the
- issues. We are an activist organization, and activism is fueled
- by anger, so people should not be surprised when that anger
- erupts in ways that not everyone approves of.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Is the right to protest any more sacred than the right
- to practice one's religion in peace?
- </p>
- <p> A. If you're asking me to apologize, I'm not going to. We're
- prepared to leave the Catholic Church alone if the Catholic
- Church will leave us alone.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You founded the AIDS Coalition to Unleash Power, or ACT
- UP, which organized the demonstrations. What is it?
- </p>
- <p> A. ACT UP is a street-smart bunch of very courageous
- scrappers. We have protests, which include taking over the
- opening plenary session of the AIDS conference in Montreal,
- blocking the Golden Gate Bridge and protesting endlessly at
- city hall here in New York. We have telephone zaps where we tie
- up switchboards. We purchased millions of dollars of tickets
- when Northwest Airlines refused to carry AIDS people as
- passengers, tickets that weren't paid for, of course. Because
- we are gay people and have wonderful taste and can put on
- wonderful shows, our demonstrations are usually very
- theatrical.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Is ACT UP establishing alliances?
- </p>
- <p> A. Because we are for universal health care, we have been
- approached by a good half a dozen unions, asking if we can
- somehow fund and organize a consensus organization. Because we
- are for the early release of drugs, we find ourselves quoted
- by right-wing think tanks like the Heritage Foundation because
- they're for anything that keeps government out of business.
- Because the release of the drug DDI has been so successful,
- Hoffmann-La Roche, an enormously conservative Swiss company,
- has now called us and said, Let's talk about making the new drug
- DDC the next DDI.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Wasn't speeding the release of drugs ACT UP's original
- mission?
- </p>
- <p> A. The mission of ACT UP is to end the AIDS epidemic. I
- think the reason everyone is coming to us now is that they
- perceive us, quite rightly, as being able to fight the battle,
- to carry the ball, to raise the issues and follow through.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But do you need to be so confrontational?
- </p>
- <p> A. Even more so. We perceive it as a two-pronged attack. We
- send our experts in to negotiate with the Government's experts,
- and at the same time we use our street troops as a threat.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Don't you worry about alienating people?
- </p>
- <p> A. Gay people have finally learned the terrible lesson that
- we are always going to have enemies no matter what. So you
- can't go through life being afraid of them. And that's what ACT
- UP has finally put into practice: Don't run from fear.
- </p>
- <p> Q. You tested positive for the HIV virus just last year. How
- has that changed your life?
- </p>
- <p> A. It makes life exceptionally precious. On the other hand,
- you have nightmares, and there are many nights when you wake
- up at 4 in the morning scared.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Were you encouraged by the report from Johns Hopkins that
- bone-marrow transplants might provide a cure?
- </p>
- <p> A. We're always happy that research is going ahead,
- obviously. But the press really did the world a disservice by
- putting such an incomplete and unchallenged story on the front
- page, giving, in essence, false hope to a lot of people. Even
- if it worked, it would cost, minimum, $200,000 per patient, and
- there are very few people they could do it on because it is
- very hard to match up bone marrow.
- </p>
- <p> Q. What is the most promising research going on right now?
- </p>
- <p> A. One of the most interesting developments has been the
- appearance of what is called CRIs, community research
- initiatives, which are community-based treatment organizations.
- We have found ways to set up in each individual community, with
- doctors' help, tests that are free from Government interference
- and can therefore work much more smoothly.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Isn't the Government funding some of these programs?
- </p>
- <p> A. The grants are peanuts.
- </p>
- <p> Q. But more people die each year from cancer or heart
- disease than from AIDS, and yet the Government spends more on
- AIDS than on them.
- </p>
- <p> A. I'm so sick of that argument. AIDS is a transmissible
- virus. Heart disease is not. There is a new HIV infection every
- single minute in this country. There is a new death every
- half-hour. We found that Congress has indeed appropriated the
- money, but it's not being spent, or it's being spent foolishly.
- Someone has got to be put in charge. You need a Lee Iacocca.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Where is the bottleneck?
- </p>
- <p> A. The bottleneck is that George Bush doesn't give a damn.
- We got the second inhumane, uncaring monster in the White House
- in a row. The Government is spending half a billion dollars a
- year to test drugs in Government research in local hospitals
- around the country, but those hospitals don't have enough
- patients enrolled in the drug trials because the Government
- doesn't tell anybody that these trials exist.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Why, instead of setting up your own testing programs,
- aren't you directing people into these?
- </p>
- <p> A. We're doing that too. We set up our own organization
- called the AIDS Treatment Registry. It's an in-depth directory
- of every drug trial that you can get into in this area.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Aren't doctors the ones who direct their patients to the
- hospitals?
- </p>
- <p> A. Don't talk to me about doctors. I think doctors have
- probably one of the most shameful records in this whole
- epidemic, because they've known from the very beginning what's
- going on. They have a very powerful union in the A.M.A., and
- yet they've done precious little about exerting pressure.
- </p>
- <p> Q. Why has there been such complacency about AIDS?
- </p>
- <p> A. Well, I think that there is no question because of who
- it's happening to. I mean, you can say all you want about
- denial, but this is happening to black people and to Hispanic
- people and to people who take drugs and to gay people and to
- babies who are born out of wedlock, and these are all people
- that a lot of other people would just as soon weren't there.
- </p>
- <p> Q. How have you sustained the intensity of your anger over
- these past nine years?
- </p>
- <p> A. I have a lot of dead friends, and I think that helps fuel
- my energy. I had a lover that I wrote about in my play The
- Normal Heart, and I remember him daily. And now, of course, I'm
- fighting even more for my own life.
- </p>
-
- </body>
- </article>
- </text>
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